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coldwindz |
40. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 7:52 AM EDT
"I believe that although Qin Xiang does have a few valid points, it is not necessarily true that every student has "access to caffeine" or any other drug. It is not true that every single person has access to these performance enhancing drugs. Sometimes these drugs are not available due to the lack of funds. Although something is available to the public, it is not something which every single person is able to obtain. For example, richer people may be able to obtain more drugs as well as a larger variety of drugs which may further enhance their cognitive ability, among other abilities, which in turn may also cost more. Thus I would like to point out that there is nothing which is absolutely available to everyone. If everyone has access to a drug which may be BOUGHT, then richer people would most obviously have access to more drugs than poorer people and thus it is not fair. In this case of caffeine, some students might be so poor that even water is a luxury, let alone coffee and tea. Thus, following QX's philosophy, caffeine here would be unethical."Can I point out that Ryan's comment here is being extremely skeptical? Caffeine as we all know is widely available in beverages such as coffee, tea, Mountain Dew and other soft drinks. According to Ryan, "In this case of caffeine, some students might be so poor that even water is a luxury, let alone coffee and tea", this is an unfair and skeptical judgement as he is looking at the extreme end of the situation - in every given situation, we are aware that there exceptions to every given rule or theory. For example, we are taught that ionic compounds are soluble in water but there are obviously exceptions to this statement, precious jems and barium chloride are known to be insoluble in water. Would be fair to conclude it is wrong to say ionic compounds are soluble in water then? Also, it is really true that "some students might be so poor that even water is a luxury"? There might be so truth in that statement, but going by statistics, coffee is the most popular and consumed beverage in the world and even third world countries like Africa has a large coffee cultivation. Nothing can be absolutely exact and fair in this world, basing your argument on the small minority of students who are too poor to afford coffee wouldn't be a fair comment and as pointed out does coffee really give a disproportionate advantage? We should discern the facts to avoid skeptical judgements. I would also like to comment on Samuel's remark that "caffeine does NOT exist in minute amounts in coffee powder, as it would take just two cups of strong coffee to exceed the requirement that Qin Xiang has stated, 250 milligrams", my earlier point was that amount of PURE caffeine found in common beverages being scarce and minute. 250 milligrams of caffeine refers to PURE caffeine and this standard is usually reached by sniffing pure caffeine which exists as a white powder (www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002579.htm). Ng Qin Xiang (18) 9 out of 11 found this valuable. Do you? |
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tanjyr |
41. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 8:15 AM EDT
I would like to swat The.Swat's point as well as to comment on his argument in this post. It is important to note that this caffeine consumption is not only a factor in exams but also in many mind competitions, such as a chess game or maybe a Math Olympiad. In these competitions, we do have to note that almost every competitor is of an extremely high standard and many a time every small factor helps to make a difference between Gold or Bronze. Thus in this competitions, caffeine is not a "negligible issue" as caffeine might help greatly to achieve a top world ranking instead of maybe 6th in the world. Thus caffeine here would be an ethical issue as the caffeine might prevent a slightly "smarter" person from achieving the top place while a slightly less "smart" person would clinch the top position. If the competition is to see who is the natural best at the activity, then it is not possible to say that the ethical implications of caffeine is "negligible".To rebut, Swat's point on the "negative effects of caffeine". I would like to reiterate my point that the athletes should be allowed to take the drugs and caffeine at their own risk. This is just like their equipment which might have pros as well as cons. Thus does it matter if caffeine has more negative effects than chicken essence? No. The athletes choose to take the substances knowing very well the risks. And if everyone is able to buy the same amount of drugs, making this performance enhancing purchasing a fair playing field, then caffeine as well as all the other drugs would be ethical. Now I might give another analogy. As the classes are sort of streamed into better classes, the better classes would have more competition as well as more hardworking students which do better in exams. This would motivate the other students in that class. This is an advantage over the other students in other classes. Since this is allowed then why not caffeine? 6 out of 9 found this valuable. Do you? |
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falconseraph |
42. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 8:50 AM EDT
Personally, I am not against the consumption of caffeine during competitions and other tests of cognitive performance. Caffeine has already been established in the previous posts as a drug that enhances the body's performance to a certain extent. Like many have mentioned, athletes can choose the type of food they consume and the amount of training they undergo before a competition. Different individuals have different metabolism rates and other factors that would be specific to each person. If a particular athlete has a greater metabolism rate, for example, he or she would tend to consume more food, allowing greater room for the body to grow. As each athlete can choose his or her diet, he or she cannot be stopped from consuming more protein and allowing for more muscle growth. From this we can see that there are already many inevitable differences in specific individuals that will affect our performance in competitions and other activities. If competitions were meant for perfectly fair and controlled comparison, the first thing that should be done is to ensure that all participating athletes undergo the same diet and the same training programme, which is close to impossible.In any competition that we take part in, an important aspect that we must abide by is having integrity. As Leon has mentioned, 'Competitions originated from particular leisure activities and exams were created to give students a benchmark on where they stood academically compared to the rest of the cohort. Competitions spur individuals of a sport to excel beyond their expectations and reach their limits.' Competitions, as described by Leon, are chances to give ourselves a benchmark of where we stand among other individuals. If we do not have integrity during such chances of comparing ourselves to other individuals, we would be just cheating others and worse of all, cheating ourselves, as we do not know the true result of our hard work, if any. - To be continued - 3 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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falconseraph |
43. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 8:56 AM EDT
- Continued from previous post -Also, there remains the point that even though drugs may be banned, athletes can still choose to break this rule, and may even get away with it. As the same with caffeine, if it is banned, people may still choose to consume it and get away with it, making competitions even less fair. Therefore, I feel that the consumption of caffeine during competitions should be allowed, but at the user's own discretion and moral choice. The true feeling of accomplishment comes through knowing that you trained hard and did your best, without any help from performance-enhancing drugs or the like. - Eugene Leong (11) 2 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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mrjelly |
44. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 8:59 AM EDT
In this, my first post, I would like to clarify my personal definition and opinions on caffeine as a drug.Well. Personally, I think, as have many others before me, that caffeine is, yes, a drug, and has been classified as such by most, if not all, authorities. That in itself is undeniable. However, the term "drugs" also refers to most medicines which are fairly common. Thus, since "drugs" itself as a term is exceedingly ambiguous, I think that what really defines our ethical judgement here is the line between legal drugs and illegal drugs. Caffeine, like so many other medicines and common household "drugs", is legal, making it purely an individual's choice as to whether or not to drink coffee, or indeed ingest caffeine in any form. However, in competitions, the case is that it could ostensibly be a different manner in that it might give a competitor an unfair edge. Frankly, I agree with Gareth, in that yes, it is ethical to use caffeine during a competition. As Derrick said, 2 pages ago, some people prefer not to use caffeine as they have averse reactions to it. One man's meat is another man's poison, so they say. Caffeine is legal, after all. It perhaps can be best compared to a piece of sporting equipment, so to speak. If an athlete chooses to use a certain shoe, or a new kind of sock, no one makes any fuss. Why complain when caffeinated drinks are readily available and the competitors voluntarily put themselves at a disadvantage? Of course, intellectual challenges are a different matter altogether. Caffeine has been shown to improve thought processes for at least 3 to 5 hours, and this can, as Ryan said, mean the difference between first and second place. Well, frankly I feel that caffeine gives at best a negligible effect. Caffeine does not, in fact, improve one's intelligence, merely makes your thought processes clearer, and improves only your short-term memory. No intelligence boost. -mark. 1 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you? |
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haoala |
45. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 9:52 AM EDT
"In my opinion, caffeine usage is not an ethical problem as long as the society is not negatively impacted, which is very, very rare. Most working people take coffee, but this does not affect anyone very seriously unlike other extreme drugs such as steroids. Since coffee does enhances thinking acording to reserach papers, it does give an unfair advantage to a person who takes coffee over a person who does not. However, it is crucial to note that these advantages are very, very minor. There are other factors, which play a bigger role in performance. I.e. a fat, less-trained runner who took caffeine is not going to perform better than a fit, well-trained runner. Here, fitness takes priority over caffeine. Neither is a stupid, less-prepared student who took caffeine but did not study consistently for exams. So, any advantage given by coffee just does not make any difference. Since coffee does not give a severe advantage, it poses negligible ethical issues except for very minor serious cases.Are you saying something is an ethical problem only if society is negatively impacted? What do you consider a negative impact on society? What could caffeine possibly do to society? I think the ethical issue for caffeine is in using it in competitions or tests (as I mentioned earlier), whether it will be considered cheating. You said that taking coffee will give one an unfair advantage over another who doesn’t. What is this unfair advantage? How do you know they will be minor? As I mentioned, I do not think this advantage will be related to physical enhancement. If you’re talking about steroids, do you know what (anabolic) steroids are for? They were initially meant for medical reasons, because they increase protein synthesis within cells. This allows for uses such as bone marrow, growth and appetite stimulation and others. During the 1930s, scientists discovered that these steroids could facilitate the growth of skeletal muscle in lab animals. However, this discovery led to the abuse of steroids by bodybuilders and weightlifters, and after that by other athletes, because they boost the body's ability to produce muscle and prevent muscle breakdown. Some athletes take steroids in the hopes that they will improve their ability to run faster, hit farther, lift heavier weights, jump higher, or have more endurance. Then they don’t have to train so hard to do as well as someone who did not take steroids, and can easily outperform the innocent man. This is why taking steroids for competitions is banned, it is cheating. This makes all the difference in the world, because we do not compete fat and fit people, but rather fit and fit people, and steroids is a factor which plays a BIG role in performance (physical). And also it makes all the difference in the world, if the research that I pointed out is true, and that caffeine improves physical performance. The ethical issues are bigger than you think. http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/steroids/index.html 1 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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seanng |
46. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 11:07 AM EDT
Post 2Firstly, I would like to challenge certain definitions of drugs that some have posted. I disagree with SamOng's viewing of a drug as something that is illegal. A drug, legal or illegal, has been well-defined in Jonathan's post, of whose defintiion I agree with- "a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being." This highlights that a drug is actually meant for positive purposes, only that many people take it in overdoses and thus it has negative effects on them. LIkewise, as stated in my previous post, caffeine should only be taken about less than 4 cups a day to avoid physical dependence of the body on it. In other words, these 'drugs' must be taken in moderation. However, other than the issue of addiction there is also the issue of sociality and ethicality. Leon's statement of "Drugs have been a controversial topic for many years due to their ability to improve performance, be it physically or mentally." aptly addresses the fact that since drugs can improve performance, it is debated whether they should be used where competition is concerned, e.g. in sports as many have pointed out as these drugs would give them an "added advantage". Also, Leon says "Results of recent studies show that caffeine enhances cognitive performance. The primary effect of caffeine on cognitive performance is that it “improves tasks switching performance by enhancing anticipatory processing such as task set updating" He seems to be likening cognitive performance to task-switching when the latter is only a minor cog in the WHEEL of cognitive performance. As such it would be incorrect to say that since caffeine improves task-switching it improves cognitive performance. Lastly Leon also says that like taking vitamins, caffeine helps one to increase performance, and should not be banned 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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seanng |
47. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 11:19 AM EDT
(contd) - Post 3However vitamins are like a long term investment, which acts on your body over a period of time whereas caffeine is a short-term gain, and also downplays human endeavour since it gives you extra "unearned" energy. Vitamins nutrish your body, caffeine simply boosts it. As such vitamins cannot be likened to caffeine. Finally, I want to also refute Samuel Ong's view that "Overall, caffeine reduces the risk of diseases, improves ones’ memory and is not considered to be a drug. “Caffeine takes a special place, being a cognitive enhancer, stimulant, widely available, socially acceptable and relatively safe.” " HOw can you say that caffeine is socially acceped when there is so much controversy about the performance enhancing effect of it? Furthermore, it does have negative effects as said in my first post. WIth that I think my stand can be defended since I think no one has refuted it so far (:, and my 2 main points disagreeing with the use of caffeine to improve cognitive performance are effectively highlighted by my criticism of the definitions of a drug, the 2 main points being that caffeine must be taken in moderation (it doesnt last very long anyway) and that there must be fair play in sportsmanship. I believe my stand is strong since scientific research also supports it, or rather affirms that there is no concerte proof that caffine helps studies, a common misconception, e.g. no intellignece boost as stated by mark, just a temporary clearness of mind. Thus, I do not really support the use of caffeine alone, let alone the use of it to increase cognitive performance. - Sean Ng (22) 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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seanng |
48. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 11:27 AM EDT
Post 4Finally, I would like to summarise my personal stand. Caffine has actually no effect on the physical being of your body, but is actually just a manipulator of your system and your mind, and habituation proves that if one takes beyond a certain number of cups of caffine, his condition will not only stay stagnant, but maybe even decrease. Also, though caffeine enhances physical performance, whatever short-term benefits it may accord will be overwhelmed by its long-term detrimental effect, such as diuresis, causing excessive loss of fluid, dehydration, insomnia, palpitations etc. USing caffeine also downplays human endeavour. So is caffeine really all that good? Scientific research really cannot be denied, and so I personally feel that this is a coherent stand- caffine should be banned to improve cognitive performance. Personally, this discussion has influenced my thinking by improving it, e.g. deliberating over what others have to say about the exact topic, comparing their comments to mine, and evulating both parties comments. In terms of my views to caffeine, though that occasional boost is still part and parcel of my life, I generally do not really support caffine. A healthy mind and body is the foundation whereby humanity is advanced. The cup of coffee is best viewed as a warm drink to break up the monotony of the morning. That it can make substantial inroads to our long term cognitive and physical performance is an unrealistic proposition. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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The.Swat |
49. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 12:03 PM EDT
In this post, I would like to defend my points, which Ryan has disagreed upon as well as comment on his previous post. Firstly, "swat The.Swat’s point" is extremely irrelevant to the discussion & I take this as a personal insult. Secondly, I totally disagree with the point "athletes choose to take the substances knowing very well the risks". Does that mean an athlete can do anything to perform better in a competition? On a wider scope, are you, Ryan, implying that I can do anything, even harm another competitive athlete close to my ability, to improve my winning chances at my own risk of a possible lawsuit? Of course not. Moreover, an athlete will always try to obtain the best equipment to improve his winning chances. So, if every athlete does this, the margin of error will be very slim...so, the unfair advantage that equipment provides is also very slight. Thus, I view the point about the equipment to be rather skeptical. In all competitions, different competitors have different coaches, etc to improve winning chances largely, thus contributing to unfair advantages for some athletes. But, drugs such as steroids are banned though they provide a lesser advantage than different coaches and effort input of all the different competitors. Why? Because they are harmful to health and have negative side affects, thus degrading the aim of a "clean","safe" and "healthy" competition. Healthy competition is an example of Ryan's analogy about the students working harder. I completely agree since they would work harder to do better instead of seeking shortcuts. A simple analogy will be cheating during the tests to perform better that those who worked harder. Just like how the school does not tolerate cheating, so would be the case in the competitions. So, drugs are mere shortcuts to achieve what others have achieved by spending their time and effort. Due to the word limit, I will continue on my next post.Swathikan 2 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you? |
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timelessbeing |
50. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 12:04 PM EDT
"However, caffeine is probably as much a “drug” as chicken essence which, according to studies, also enhances cognitive ability [http://nutriweb.org.my/publications/mjn009_1/mj n9n1_art3.pdf]. Does that mean that chicken essence should be banned before activities such as examinations as well as competitions? In addition, as tuition also gives the student an unfair advantage over those who do not go for tuition, should tuition also be banned then? These are among the other objects and activities in daily life which gives people a so called unfair advantage over others. Many activities as well as food products affect one's ability to perform in various activities and it might be said that these give each person an unfair advantage. If caffeine should be banned then all these products and activities should also be banned. Even schools give unfair advantages, like some students going to IP rather than the Express streams which teach differently and thus the students in the IP receive an unfair advantage over that of the Express. Doesn't this constitute as being performance enhancing? Thus if caffeine is banned for its aiding in performance in various areas then shouldn’t these programmes be banned as well?"I refer to Ryan's first post, where he talks about the external means by which a student can go about improving his results in studies. Everyone has their own God-given talents, and some may excel in that area without any help. For example, a genius may be born, and excel in his studies, without any help from tuition or even without having to study. In such a case, he will be sure to top classes, clinching prizes in all his studies. However, there are other people in the world who are above average in their studies, and are not able to score higher than the above mentioned genius if they do things the same way he does. Thus, the only way they can hope to better their score is to go for tuition classes, have hardcore mugging sessions, and various other ways to improve their results. This may include resorting to coffee for caffeine, or as Ryan mentioned, chicken essence. Why should one be allowed to go to such extents? Because if they are not allowed to do as such, it would only be a one-rat race, where the same naturally born genius will always be on top, as there is nothing the others can do to beat him. This is nothing that the people can change, and is not their decision. Thus these people should be given the opportunity to find means to improve their results, so that they can compete with this genius. As these methods are open to everyone, the genius can make the decision to resort to these means to further improve his results, or be comfortable with his current achievements and continue as usual. One may say that having everyone resort to these methods will just cause everything to be redundant, but this is not true, as we have discussed before that these external inputs have different effects on different people. Thus, drugs, including caffeine, can be one of the many ways that people can put themselves in the running to contend for awards which would be otherwise impossible to get. -Clement Yue (31) 4 out of 9 found this valuable. Do you? |
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The.Swat |
51. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 12:05 PM EDT
( to continue with my previous post on defending my stand)..As, eugene put it, "we would be just cheating others and worse of all, cheating ourselves, as we do not know the true result of our hard work." This negatively affects yourself and others by reducing their self-confidence about their hard work. Sure, the difference between a gold and a bronze will be minor factors, but these minor factors should still lead to healthy competition. Also, as I already said, even if these drugs like caffeine do help you, their assistance would be rather minor, esp. since caffeine is not a drug that provides extremely positive effects. Thus, I still disagree with Ryan’s comments. To comment on Adriel's post, in my previous post, I did not mention anything about steroids in particular, but rather about caffeine. While I do agree that steroids does give a big unfair advantage for athletes who abuse it and that it should be banned, I still repeat my point that caffeine is not as powerful as steroids is. 1 out of 8 found this valuable. Do you? |
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tanjyr |
53. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 12:42 PM EDT
This is in rebuttal of Swathikan's 2nd rebuttal. Although I did mention that they choose to take their substances even though they know the risks, it does not mean that it applies to other methods of achieving an advantage such as harming another athlete. I shall reiterate that this only applies to using caffeine and other substances. It is their own gamble if they choose to take a drug even though they very well know the consequences. So even in your analogy of every athlete getting the best equipment, wouldn't that be the same with drugs? Everyone would be taking the "best" drugs for them to best improve their performance. Thus i see no "skepticism" here. Thus it does not matter about the side effects of the drugs as the competitors are taking the drugs knowing how it might harm them. However, I do agree about your point about cheating. However, this analogy is not applicable because examinations are for the sole reason of ASSESSING a person. Thus it is obvious that cheating is not allowed when the school would like to see one's standard.
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timelessbeing |
54. RE: Implications on use of caffeine and ethical issues
Mar 18 2008, 12:47 PM EDT
"Competitions originated from particular leisure activities and exams were created to give students a benchmark on where they stood academically compared to the rest of the cohort. Competitions spur individuals of a sport to excel beyond their expectations and reach their limits. This is not wrong as it not only adds an importance to a sport, it also serves as entertainment for the masses. Samuel is right to say that exams are a comparison, but is too quick to conclude that it is all based on your genes. Education is given to every student and how much they gain from it is not based on their genes but on their hard work."As no one has refuted my 1st post, I shall use my 3rd post to comment on another post. I refer to Leon's comment on the origin of competitions and exams. Although the mentioned purposes may have been true, it is evident that present day has caused the purposes to steer towards personal achievement and glory. This is further amplified as MOE and schools give out awards to students who excel in their studies. Thus, the purpose of these activities has been polluted to a new purpose. If you claim that we should be going back to these original purposes, then it should stand that the exams should be based on the knowledge that we have gathered from the lessons during the school term, so that we know a true benchmark of the acquired knowledge, and where we stand compared to others. Thus, it should follow that studying the days before exams should be banned as it crams information into our brains outside class time, and the information here is only stored in our short-term memory. This will be considered "cheating" as it does not show us a true benchmark of our intelligence, as our answering of questions in the exam would be based on the information we have gathered the days before the exam, and would be forgotten once the exam has passed, as the information is only stored in our short-term memory. Thus, if we ban caffeine and drugs, we also have to ban studying the days before the exam, if we want to adhere to the initial purpose of exams, which is to give students a benchmark, which should be based solely on each individual's skill to store information. This is highly unfair to certain people, as their ability to store information in long-term and keep it ingrained in their brain is all based on birth, and somewhat like Samuel said, genes, which I also touched on in my 2nd post. Therefore, the use of external means to better ourselves in competitions and exams should be allowed to give others a chance. -Clement Yue (31) 2 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you? |